Please Help ID this 14.5" Bronze Bell

[Willie B. Herd]

Here's the response from SMU librarian. "The Baldwin construction number 2769 refers to Northern Pacific #48 built in April of 1872. There is a chance this bell was made for this 1872 locomotive, but there is also a chance that "2769" refers to a railroad line locomotive number, not the Baldwin construction number."

Due to patent dates I would assume it was made from 1924 on.
I'm pretty sure 2769 is an Engine number.
Recessed letters, #'s are stamped into, (applied) after the casting process, the raised letters, #'s are made before/during casting.

[hjlong3]

Remember that older bells were sometimes recycled into newer brackets to mount on newer engines.
Harry Long, MD

[Willie B. Herd]

Another possibility is that the raised letters on the hardware designate the name of the foundry...T.D. of Ohio.

[FindBellHist]

Thanks for all the input from each of you. It is very much appreciated.

Wow, the research has opened up to more possibilities. (I am beginning to think that without documentation it is almost impossible to trace the history of this bell.)

So now I will search Foundaries, as well as Ford Motor Co. (owned the TD RR from 1920 until 1929), Pennsylvania RR (bought TD RR from Ford in 1929), other partial owners through the years were Grand Trunk Western, Wasbash, Norfolk and Western, CN RR, and Indiana and Ohio. Good grief!

[RockinEZ]

I cringe, and at the same time bow to the more experienced members of this forum.
I would have left the patina intact. Once you start you have to do a total restoration.
As mentioned in this forum; polishing bells is normal and does not reduce their value. A partially polished bell is another story.
Most of my collection came to me as partially polished or damaged bells. I am a restoration person, so I look for things with a damaged patina to restore to “Show Condition”. A piece with intact patina in every other discipline would be important. Bells are different; they are made to be polished and every sailor that had done a minor infraction has polished bell, brass, or rail.
Your bell now qualifies as destined for restoration……
I can do it, wanna sell it?

[FindBellHist]

RockinEZ,
Thanks for your post regarding restoration. I cleaned only a portion of the inside of the bell, but I have not polished the exterior. Appreciate the comments. At this time the bell is not for sale. I am still fascinated with it.

[FindBellHist]

Just did the magnet test to determine brass or bronze. A strong magnet did not adhere but a smaller one did adhere. Therefore, can definitely determine that this bell is brass as indicated by previous posts.
Really appreciate this forum and the good information that is provided.

[dunrobin]

Hello,

Interesting reading on this one. I can identify your bell for you and put it on a locomotive. I do charge a fee. My fee includes a Certification of Authenticity. I do appraisals as well. I also professionally restore steam locomotive bells. The magnet test I have never heard of. Brass or bronze should not have iron in them. Each manufacturer has their own formula for their bells. Iron is not in the mixture. Brass is made up of Zinc and Copper and bronze is made up of Tin and Copper for the most part. There are other metals added for different reasons of course. The only sure fire way of testing for brass or bronze is to take a dab of toilet boil cleaner and water and put it on a test spot inside the bell. If the spot turns brass the bell is brass, if it turns pink the bell is bronze. Once one is educated in the different metals and can tell how they tarnish it can be seen with the eye without testing.

I agree with the patina comment. But there are ways of putting it back on but you have do the whole thing. The inside is a matter of taste. I leave the insides as they are found. I only wash them out with hot soap and water. The only time I touch the inside is if someone has painted it red after it came off the locomotive. Then I remove the paint and leave it off. I have one bell from the 1880's and the outside shines. The inside is full of clean soot!

The internal clapper is post 1924 in the USA. That was the first year they were used in the US. Canada use them in 1912. Your bell assembly is no older than 1900 and could be made up of different era parts. If you are interested contact me. I will need more information from you as well.

Nice historical piece you have there!